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Guild Cap Change

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Someone posted that the guild cap of 28 is too high. Thoughts on lowering it? @lkjewq posted original comment in another thread. I do believe having 20 or (even less) would put pressure on folks to make new guilds for competition. 

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I think going less than 20 would likely be to too low, but reducing it to something like 20 or 24 would probably be worth trying, depending on what kind of feedback this topic gets.

 

To avoid impacting casual guilds (or others like BG guilds) we could look at possibly adding a custom guild skill as well ("Casual Guild" or something along those lines) that prevents entering castles but increases the guild size, with a way to remove the skill via NPC if a guild decides to start joining WoE.

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17 minutes ago, Perry the Platypus said:

I think going less than 20 would likely be to too low, but reducing it to something like 20 or 24 would probably be worth trying, depending on what kind of feedback this topic gets.

 

To avoid impacting casual guilds (or others like BG guilds) we could look at possibly adding a custom guild skill as well ("Casual Guild" or something along those lines) that prevents entering castles but increases the guild size, with a way to remove the skill via NPC if a guild decides to start joining WoE.

A social guild would have to kick its members down to the (whatever we decide) number of members before they can remove this custom skill.

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-1 I don't feel 28 is too high at the moment. It feels just nice.

 

However, if the majority agrees with this suggestion thread, then we could possibly reduce it to 20 (the lowest) and see if there's any significant difference in the WoE experience.

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-1 
Kinda pointless to lower the cap. They're ways around it, and has been done when it comes to WoE.  As for Social uses of the guild, lowering would mean it'll leave people out :c 

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+1

 

It's possible to compete against a 20 man guild with 12 or 13 but quite impossible with any more. I do believe this would open up possibilities if it happened, not to mention the current population can't sustain 3 guilds with consistent attendance of 20+ and therefore competitive with each other

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+1

 

I think since the party size is 20, making a guild size 20 isn't too far off. and as valk said, 12ish people can compete with 20, its hard but its possible. when you have a bit more than twice as many people its virtually impossible.

This would also make increase party size to 28 suggestion irrelevant for the moment... but all things considered i think its a good suggestion to lower guild cap to 20.

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-1 
People would just create a "second" guild that would pretty much be allied. People would then be asking for alliances to become a thing or increase the cap. It's pointless. For social guilds, Perry's idea works wonderfully.

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+1

i’d like to see more guilds competing for WoE rather than seeing big guilds.

 

This change will only be effective if the loop holes get regulated. 

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You guys act like they're are actually 28 people online at the same time for your social guild and that it'll have a huge impact on you guys. There's barely even 28 people online most of the time. 50 vendors btw. 

 

+1 to the idea of lowering the cap to 20. This is a "WoE" server and this'll likely help smaller guild actually have people show up and not having to stress about filling up the space of 28 to compete in WoE. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, PotOfGreed said:

 

 

+1 to the idea of lowering the cap to 20. This is a "WoE" server and this'll likely help smaller guild actually have people show up and not having to stress about filling up the space of 28 to compete in WoE. 

 

 

^ +1  and Valk's reasoning

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+1 to smaller guilds. There'd need to be rules about forming alliances in WoE if that came to pass though. Else you'll see players form 2 guilds that woe with each other as they already have and I am unsure how best to deal with that.

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46 minutes ago, Omen said:

There'd need to be rules about forming alliances in WoE if that came to pass though.

This is one of the primary concerns on our end. It's really not possible to enforce a rule like that because there's so many potential loopholes (such as just sending either guild to a different castle, which then becomes impossible to prove as an alliance), and based on previous experience it's seemingly impossible to receive a proper report on it when the rule is broken. Unfortunately it becomes one of those situations where trying to enforce the rule becomes far more time than it's worth.

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Thinking about it more, perhaps it should be reduced regardless? People are going to create 2nd guilds either way just to have more people in WoE and reducing the maximum size of guilds would mean less of an advantage with the number of players that could flag in as well as the number of players that could be e-called at once as well. I think it'd still be a positive change for smaller and new up and coming guilds in the end.

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+1 seriously, when was the last time we even had a guild woeing with 20+ members? WAKE UP. Theres only 3 guilds woeing right now. You think one would ally with another? Theres 2 castles per woe(except 2.0)! You think it matters because of social guilds? 28 members? Man, we can't even get a consistent attendance in BG! If "leaving out people" is your concern about why lowering the guild cap is a bad idea, show me a 20+ guild woeing this week.

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+1 even 15 would be great - there seems to be only 2 guilds on like once or twice a week. Would love to see multiple guilds all vying for castles

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It would be great to have the guild capacity changed as the server could definitely use more guilds for more competition in WoE. Unfortunately, like Perry said, players can make endless loopholes to resist the change.
Though I feel like its worth the effort due to that fact that small guilds are in a big disadvantage at the moment. It is very discouraging to compete in WoE with a small roster and newbies just starting out against a guild with fully stacked, geared and experienced players.  Newbies seeing how imbalance guilds are will more than likely move to the winning guild, hence killing off a guild that could have potentially been a source of competition. (This isn't a theory either. This has happened before in the server, MULTIPLE TIMES)

 

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8 minutes ago, Exroh said:

Unfortunately, like Perry said, players can make endless loopholes to resist the change.

you can do the same with 28, it just gets harder with lower cap

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Just a quick update to this, I actually did some testing after my first reply and I've confirmed that it is possible on our current client version to add custom guild skills (on older clients you had to replace a guild skill to make it work, which is far from ideal), so adding a "Casual Guild" skill or something similar would be possible. This means the social/non-WoE guilds aren't an issue anymore, as it'll be easy for them to increase their guild cap beyond the WoE cap if they have no intention of joining it.

 

On a related note, one possible method to mitigate the effect of alliances would be to disable party targeting checks in the WoE maps (gvg_noparty flag). Parties could still be created and used, but they wouldn't prevent friendly fire on players outside of the guild. There's still a lot of other loopholes of course, but this would at the very least prevent one of the more prominent ones since it would be a lot harder for members of two separate guilds to defend the same position together.

 

So far there seems to be more players supporting this than not, but I'll give the topic a bit more time to leave some room for additional feedback.

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-1 to this idea. 28 seems rather fine for me as of the moment. 

We do have 3 guilds competing in the current WoE scene but each guild barely reach 28 members. So I don't really see an issue about the guild cap. One would definitely stand up and make a guild if he/she really intend to instead of being forced to make one due to the lower guild cap. [ Ex : Natural Born Haters , they stood up as a guild and still alive kicking despite being low in numbers and having most of

the newbies ]  

I believe it would be better to start a poll about this suggestion and have the current active WoE players to cast their vote. Since most players dont visit forums or they would just read and leave no comment since it would require lots of reasoning and discussions :o 


 

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15 minutes ago, rozzy said:

One would definitely stand up and make a guild if he/she really intend to instead of being forced to make one due to the lower guild cap. 
 

this x 1000000. 

 

Problem I feel isn't the cap its the lack of people wanting to go out of the comfort zone and take that risk to make a guild.

Is lowering the cap gonna really help the current WoE scene? I honestly feel it wont. Anyone who has WoE'd recently can see that. 

You say you want more competition in yet you don't wanna make a guild to create more competition. Its so easy to just run to another established guild and add to their numbers (which is what people seem more likely to do)

Everyone wants more competition, but no one wants to put in the work. Shame

Edited by GergDeBean

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-1 to this suggestion :c

 

I think with the current state of WoE, the guild capacity is fine at 28 players. Though it is true that most guilds now-a-days are unable to fill their guild with the max capacity, it would be quite unnecessary to reduce the guild capacity for such reason. There was a time where most guilds would have more than 28 players and players were clamoring for an increase in guild capacity. Now, however, the WoE scene has cooled down a bit and has fewer number of active players for WoE times. This being said, it would be quite odd to reduce the capacity just to return it back to its original, or possibly even higher, capacity should the WoE scene begin to pick up again. A 28-player capacity, in my opinion, is just the right number. One could argue that the guild capacity would make it harder for smaller guilds to compete against a full capacity guild so we should, in turn, reduce the guild capacity. However, alliances and smarter tactics have been employed before to remedy this problem. As they say, if there is a will there is a way. 

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