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Perry the Platypus

Server Updates (May 21, 2018)

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Hai! Today's update is mostly focused on balancing, but we've also included some other changes such as new headgear drops in the Forgotten Forest and some new Gold Room mobs!

 

Server Updates

 

Update: The monsters in Forgotten Forest will now drop headgears at a low chance (0.05% for Forest Fairies, 0.5% for Dainn/Durathror/Dvalinn)

Spoiler

Frost Orb
Gaea Wings
Dying Will (+ Black/Blue/Green/Orange/Pink/Purple/Red/Silver/White)

Update: MVPs have had their MDef reverted to default values to compensate for balancing changes (see balancing section for details)
Update: The Gold Room is no longer infested with bugs (the new monsters use the same stats as the old one, with slightly reduced movement speed, so you don't need to change your builds)
Update: An extra mob with special effects has been added to the Gold Room that drops additional Gold (30 second respawn time)
Misc: Made some minor improvements to the Battlegrounds role balancing system
Bugfix: Fixed a bug that could cause the Battlegrounds role balancing system to split up duo queues in some situations
Bugfix: Fixed a bug that prevented transferring refines to an unrefined headgear

 

Balancing

 

There's a bunch of balancing updates today, so I'll just briefly explain them to give some insight into the reasoning behind each of the changes.

Spoiler

For starters, we're making some tweaks to Whitesmiths and Stalkers to make it a little easier for them to do their jobs - hopefully this leads to a more consistent performance from them, and should make the classes feel a bit better to play.


We're also making some small changes to Creators and magic classes; they've both been dominating BG for quite some time now, so these changes should help to bring them in line a bit. We'll keep an eye on things after this update and see if they need any more attention beyond these changes.


And, finally, you'll notice that the change to MDef penetration also applies to PvM. This was done to level out the playing field a bit for MVP killing, and make future MVP design more interesting; along the same lines, we've reduced Asura's damage against boss monsters as well.

 

Nerf: MDef penetration is now capped at 50%
Nerf: Asura Strike will now deal 50% damage against boss monsters
Bugfix: Skin Tempering's Fire resist has been increased from 20% -> 25% (reference)
Buff: Cart Boost will now give an additional +10 additive movement speed for the first 5 seconds
Buff: Throw Tomahawk's chance to slow the target has been increased from 5% -> 7%
Buff: Throw Tomahawk will now trigger a 5 second delay on Backsliding, Shadow Jump, Body Relocation, and High Jump when slowing the target
Misc: Throw Tomahawk will now display a visual effect when slowing the target
Nerf: Acid Demonstration now has a 175ms cooldown
Buff: Critical Wounds now affects natural HP regeneration
Buff: Back Stab's status effects no longer have a reduced chance when attacking from the front of the target (chance is still reduced when using a bow)
Buff: Strip Weapon will now reduce the target's Atk/MAtk by 10% when successfully cast (not blocked by FCP)
Buff: Strip Armor will now reduce the target's Def/MDef by 10% when successfully cast (not blocked by FCP)
Buff: Strip Shield will now increase the target's incoming damage by 10% from other sources / 25% from the Stalker when successfully cast (not blocked by FCP)
Buff: Strip Helm will now reduce the target's healing, HP/SP regen, and HP/SP draining effects by 10% when successfully cast (not blocked by FCP)
-Note: Each of the strip skill debuffs has a 20 second duration, and only two can be applied at a time (the oldest will be removed if a new one is applied)

-Another note: FCP will still block the strip effects; only the new debuffs can bypass it (so, for example, you can still reduce their Atk/MAtk if they have FCP active, but it won't actually strip their weapon)
Misc: B.S. Sacramenti can now be cancelled by swapping armors

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(We're also making some small changes to Creators and magic classes; they've both been dominating BG for quite some time now, so these changes should help to bring them in line a bit. We'll keep an eye on things after this update and see if they need any more attention beyond these changes) Thank you :D HAHHA

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5 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

Update: The Gold Room is no longer infested with bugs (the new monsters use the same stats as the old one, with slightly reduced movement speed, so you don't need to change your builds)

I'm gonna miss those bugs..

 

5 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

Buff: Back Stab's status effects no longer have a reduced chance when attacking from the front of the target (chance is still reduced when using a bow)
Buff: Strip Weapon will now reduce the target's Atk/MAtk by 10% when successfully cast (not blocked by FCP)
Buff: Strip Armor will now reduce the target's Def/MDef by 10% when successfully cast (not blocked by FCP)
Buff: Strip Shield will now increase the target's incoming damage by 10% from other sources / 25% from the Stalker when successfully cast (not blocked by FCP)
Buff: Strip Helm will now reduce the target's healing, HP/SP regen, and HP/SP draining effects by 10% when successfully cast (not blocked by FCP)
-Note: Each of the strip skill debuffs has a 20 second duration, and only two can be applied at a time (the oldest will be removed if a new one is applied)

-Another note: FCP will still block the strip effects; only the new debuffs can bypass it (so, for example, you can still reduce their Atk/MAtk if they have FCP active, but it won't actually strip their weapon)

@Force Lux Look at all the Stalker balancing changes after you left :')

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6 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

Update: The Gold Room is no longer infested with bugs (the new monsters use the same stats as the old one, with slightly reduced movement speed, so you don't need to change your builds)

Hi, i just used @mi for gold porings and it showed up like 5 types. I guess the 5 types are mixed in the gold room?

Reason I'm asking is I use Star Gladiator and it seems the hatred does not work on some.

 

Thanks!

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Oh, yes, there's 5 variations. :o One of them is the special spawn (that's the glowing one, ID 3021), the other 4 are just small variations in the positioning on the gold bar + the one without a gold bar to make it a bit less repetitive.

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9 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

Nerf: Asura Strike will now deal 50% damage against boss monsters

Isn't this will make newbie champion more hard to get MVP?

Where are you on the new instance you told me about

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6 hours ago, Tsokolate said:

HAHAHAHAHA SARCASTIC ! :D :D :D

More than sarcasm, I'm actually curious why it went all the way down to 50% instead of a middle point like 75% or 60%ish at first before. I just wanted to see something else more than "as they have dominated for a while" (which I do completely agree with). It was just too late and didn't feel like saying anything more, that was mb. He did say that he's going to see what happens, so I'm not too worried. I do really like how toning down the classes that are dominating (like what happened to LKs) bring new classes into the mix. I've been seeing 4-6 profs playing, 2-4wizzies, and when there's only like 18 people playing and half are magic classes (might be a little exaggerated), that's not that cool. I wanna see ninjas, stalkers (hehe stalker buffs), whitesmiths (i see one and he hurts .-. )

To give you an example, right now, wearing 3 HWC and 3 Kiel is kind of the standard (unless you're full support with pharaos or something). That's 15% per HWC, for a total of 45% penetration. The usual wiz (without 3 hwc, so let's say one or two) doesn't even or barely reaches 50%, so it doesn't really hurt many people, especially newbies. Fully geared, you could potentially reach 60% pierce. This nerf hurts people like me, that are just yoloing and running 6hwc (among other things) which was next to impossible against most people anyway because getting two mayas and a plat shield takes no real effort and how your cooldowns are so big in every other spell that you'll die if you mess up your switches or spells. I've almost killed myself against people that have been playing less than a week from it (which I shouldn't have bolted anyway, but it shows my point). This also slightly hurts a normal, full build for a high wizard, but by slightly less than an HWC value.

This is just talking about hwiz (and potentially profs) in general. Other magic classes that only have mdef penetration from the HWC source will only get 45%, so they're not even affected in the slightest (a creo or any other class when using an ice falchion, a stalker going bolt style, super novice -unless linked and uses it appropriately iirc-, can't think of more right now).

If anything, I am complaining as an hwiz; it's the one class I actually enjoy, and I've played for around 4 months (it makes sense that I'm fully geared); I feel like this is a nerf to people that are fully geared to give new people more of a chance (not saying it's necessarily a bad thing).
 

Edited by Kratos Fon Fabre

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8 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

Oh, yes, there's 5 variations. :o One of them is the special spawn (that's the glowing one, ID 3021), the other 4 are just small variations in the positioning on the gold bar + the one without a gold bar to make it a bit less repetitive.

So basically, SGs are pretty much rendered inefficient in GR. .-.

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5 hours ago, Schotto said:

Where are you on the new instance you told me about

We are currently still working on the map. Mapping takes time, however I can assure you we are working as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Edited by Esper

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11 hours ago, Schotto said:

Isn't this will make newbie champion more hard to get MVP?

That's the point; Champions have been the fastest MVP killers for a pretty long time while requiring pretty much no gear at all (you could essentially one or two shot most MVPs without a single MVP card). This change should help to even things out so that newbies (and older players) have a bit more time to search for / kill MVPs before all of them are dead in invasions. Champions can still kill MVPs pretty fast even after this change anyway, they'll just need a few more berries and a few extra seconds to do it.

 

6 hours ago, Kratos Fon Fabre said:

More than sarcasm, I'm actually curious why it went all the way down to 50% instead of a middle point like 75% or 60%ish at first before.

Mainly because 75% or 60% wouldn't really be a middle point in the majority of cases. The standard full build had 64% MPen (3 HWC, +10 Staff of Piercing, 2 Necromancers), so 75% wouldn't really have affected anything, and 60% would have been an extremely small change for most builds. Even with the reduction to 50% MPen though, they should still be quite strong, especially since both Professors and High Wizards offer a lot of additional utility beyond their damage.

 

Keep in mind as well that this isn't quite as simple as just a direct 14% reduction to their MPen either - this actually opens up the option to use a different rod with higher MAtk (Thorn Staff or Lich's Bone Wand, for example), or free up a headgear slot to use for something else. So while their damage is reduced, it may not be as much as it looks like at first glance and/or they may be gaining a bit of utility or resist in return.

 

6 hours ago, SnowBunny said:

So basically, SGs are pretty much rendered inefficient in GR. .-.

We could potentially look at updating it so Hatred affects all of the Gold Porings at once, though it would probably be best to open up a suggestion topic for it so it doesn't get lost in this one.

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On 22/05/2018 at 1:21 AM, Perry the Platypus said:

Nerf: Asura Strike will now deal 50% damage against boss monsters

Is it down from 100% to 50%?

 

10 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

That's the point; Champions have been the fastest MVP killers for a pretty long time while requiring pretty much no gear at all (you could essentially one or two shot most MVPs without a single MVP card). This change should help to even things out so that newbies (and older players) have a bit more time to search for / kill MVPs before all of them are dead in invasions. Champions can still kill MVPs pretty fast even after this change anyway, they'll just need a few more berries and a few extra seconds to do it.

You once told me that each char is good for something 

People who plays champ in invasion already gave up on Ghost MVPs( Thanatos,Gloom) except champ that plays TSS but i realy doubt that.

I do think that newbie champ will not stand a chance on normal spawn MVPs

we are already obliged to get convex mirror to see where the mvp has spawnd if we can't kill it faster it wont serv to anything if a heavy stuffed champ is on the same map

16 hours ago, Esper said:

We are currently still working on the map. Mapping takes time, however I can assure you we are working as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Thx can't wait to see it

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14 hours ago, Schotto said:

Is it down from 100% to 50%?

Yep, it'll deal half damage to boss monsters. Against normal monsters & players it'll deal the same damage.

 

14 hours ago, Schotto said:

You once told me that each char is good for something 

Champions will still be good for MVP hunting. Even with the nerf, they can still one shot a few MVPs, and for most others they can two or three shot them, so in a lot of cases they're still the fastest option to kill MVPs. This just slows them down a little bit (and slightly increases berry consumption) so other characters have a better chance to look for MVPs during invasions. It's also necessary because Professors had their MVP killing time reduced as well, so if Asura was left as it was, Champions would have been way too strong in comparison.

 

14 hours ago, Schotto said:

I do think that newbie champ will not stand a chance on normal spawn MVPs

we are already obliged to get convex mirror to see where the mvp has spawnd if we can't kill it faster it wont serv to anything if a heavy stuffed champ is on the same map

There's not actually much of a difference between a fully geared Champion and a newbie Champion in terms of how quickly they can kill MVPs. The only MVP card that makes a significant difference is Lady Tanee, and in most cases it's not necessary to one or two shot most MVPs, so it really only has a noticeable impact against high HP MVPs like Ifrit.

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13 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

Yep, it'll deal half damage to boss monsters. Against normal monsters & players it'll deal the same damage.

Even if it dealt 0% to normal monsters and chars that wont bother any one i think, the purpose of champion is MVPs

13 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

There's not actually much of a difference between a fully geared Champion and a newbie Champion in terms of how quickly they can kill MVPs. The only MVP card that makes a significant difference is Lady Tanee, and in most cases it's not necessary to one or two shot most MVPs, so it really only has a noticeable impact against high HP MVPs like Ifrit.

There is a huge difference between a well geard champion and a newbie champion

There was a lot of time where i hit FBH first with my asura and didn't make more than 50% damage the second one that come after me gets it

2 Gloom double your damages

It has an impact on MVPs that are camped like Kiel FBH or tanee if you are not able to deal 50% damages at least, it doesnt mater if u are first to hit the MVP since better geared champion than you will come finish the mvp and leave u with nothing

if you want to reduce Champion damages i would say its better to nerf lady tanee card since its a luxury item and this way new champ will still have a chance to do damages

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5 hours ago, Schotto said:

There is a huge difference between a well geard champion and a newbie champion

There was a lot of time where i hit FBH first with my asura and didn't make more than 50% damage the second one that come after me gets it

2 Gloom double your damages

It has an impact on MVPs that are camped like Kiel FBH or tanee if you are not able to deal 50% damages at least, it doesnt mater if u are first to hit the MVP since better geared champion than you will come finish the mvp and leave u with nothing

You can one shot a Tanee and deal >50% damage to Kiel without a single MVP card, so it doesn't have any impact at all on either of those two MVPs. You can do the same with a lot of other MVPs, including Tao, SinX, Pharaoh, GTB, and others. A lot of the remaining MVPs you can deal around 50% with two Asura Strikes, a fairly prominent one being LK. In the vast majority of situations, if you're the first one to find an MVP, this change will make very little difference.


Gloom does increase damage, but that's only against a specific handful of MVPs, and as mentioned it's not necessary in any way to secure an MVP kill in most cases.

 

5 hours ago, Schotto said:

if you want to reduce Champion damages i would say its better to nerf lady tanee card since its a luxury item and this way new champ will still have a chance to do damages

This wouldn't have solved anything because the problem wasn't Lady Tanee Card, the problem was that you can do everything I just stated above without a single MVP card or god item.

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7 hours ago, Schotto said:

There is a huge difference between a well geard champion and a newbie champion

No, not really.  At least, not compared to other MvP classes; particularly anything that uses magic.  The difference only really comes into play between a new Champ and a vet Champ with some of the tougher MvPs.  However, it is debatable whether Champions should be used for those ones anyway since many are Ghost element or are inconvenient for them to kill.

 

Mage MvPers are required to get at least 3 Kiels (2 if you're going Soul Linker), 2 FBHs, a +10 either SoP/+8 ~ +10 TSoD/+10 Survivor's Rod and a few other investments to be competitive with Champion.  Compare that with a Champion that can run out and get Morpheus' Set and a Liberation Mace to 2HKO a good portion of the MvPs and I think you'll see whose budget is going to take a bigger hit.

Edited by Hylian Spectre

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15 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

You can one shot a Tanee and deal >50% damage to Kiel without a single MVP card, so it doesn't have any impact at all on either of those two MVPs. You can do the same with a lot of other MVPs, including Tao, SinX, Pharaoh, GTB, and others. A lot of the remaining MVPs you can deal around 50% with two Asura Strikes, a fairly prominent one being LK. In the vast majority of situations, if you're the first one to find an MVP, this change will make very little difference.

I'm not omniscient about Ro i'm aware of that but can you take time and explain to me where i'm wrong on how i see this

with my full build champion( with no mvp cards) i was only able to deal less than 50% to FBH and Kiel

when i got my 2 gloom i was barly able to OS FBH and Kiel (my asura deals 1m more than FBH hp pool)

a champ with 2 lady tanee will deal more since you said that tanee deals more damages than gloom on champ

so if you reduce asura damages (thing that you already done) the well geard champ will still be able to OS those MVP or atleast get more than 50% thing that will asure them the mvp loot

i can't say the same for newbie champ that don't have mvp card on their gears

So with this update the one that will be affected the most are newbie champions that will not be able unless they are lucky and have time to lend 2 Asura before some one arrive

15 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

 a fairly prominent one being LK.

What do you mean by LK?

15 hours ago, Perry the Platypus said:

Gloom does increase damage, but that's only against a specific handful of MVPs, and as mentioned it's not necessary in any way to secure an MVP kill in most cases.

Sorry, but i disagree. Gloom have a large specter of action (Angel-Demon-Holy-Shadow)

and the majority of good mvp have one or 2 of these propreties (FBH/Kiel/Valk/Morroc/TGK/Detal/Niddhog/Vesper/...)

13 hours ago, Hylian Spectre said:

No, not really.  At least, not compared to other MvP classes; particularly anything that uses magic.  The difference only really comes into play between a new Champ and a vet Champ with some of the tougher MvPs.  However, it is debatable whether Champions should be used for those ones anyway since many are Ghost element or are inconvenient for them to kill.

2 gloom muliplies by 2 ur asura damage and from some information lady tanee is more important than gloom so 2 tanee 2 gloom can make ur asura deals 4 time ur normal damages do you still think that there isn't a huge difference?

The only purpose of a champion is to MVP he doesn't shine anywhere

and i'm sorry but not many MVP are GHost the most important are HW wich i never saw in Invasion Gloom and Beelze wich i also never saw in invasion and thanatos 4 out of all MVPs

and some one who brings a champ in MVP invasion have already gave up on ghost mvp so why u punish him more?

14 hours ago, Hylian Spectre said:

Mage MvPers are required to get at least 3 Kiels (2 if you're going Soul Linker), 2 FBHs, a +10 either SoP/+8 ~ +10 TSoD/+10 Survivor's Rod and a few other investments to be competitive with Champion.  Compare that with a Champion that can run out and get Morpheus' Set and a Liberation Mace to 2HKO a good portion of the MvPs and I think you'll see whose budget is going to take a bigger hit.

For mage there is cards that are easy to get that can help them on ACD (Durthror card) befor they get their Kiel cards and stafs are realy easy to get and to up i don't play much mage class and i already have a +9 TSoD

and as i said champions need mvp cards to be competitive

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2 hours ago, Schotto said:

I'm not omniscient about Ro i'm aware of that but can you take time and explain to me where i'm wrong on how i see this

with my full build champion( with no mvp cards) i was only able to deal less than 50% to FBH and Kiel

when i got my 2 gloom i was barly able to OS FBH and Kiel (my asura deals 1m more than FBH hp pool)

a champ with 2 lady tanee will deal more since you said that tanee deals more damages than gloom on champ

so if you reduce asura damages (thing that you already done) the well geard champ will still be able to OS those MVP or atleast get more than 50% thing that will asure them the mvp loot

i can't say the same for newbie champ that don't have mvp card on their gears
So with this update the one that will be affected the most are newbie champions that will not be able unless they are lucky and have time to lend 2 Asura before some one arrive

Hi. I test my newbie non MVP build everytime there's a nerf. Pre-nerf it did more than 40% of most major MVPs that can't be one shotted the important ones being FBH, Kiel, VR. Using Asura three times takes 2.37 seconds on 281 ping. Now that it's been nerfed another 50% it may take about double that without MVP cards so about 4 ~ 6 Asuras in roughly 5 seconds give or take. That's pretty fast isn't it? Compare this to roughly 7 ~ 12(or more) seconds taken by magic users(which are also now nerfed) give or take who has to spend at least 30b(or more as well) on gear or countless hours hunting the cards. In this retrospect, champs are pretty damn op and I think it's been said somewhere before, but unless a new MVP class suddenly manages to make it's way in with better burst damage, the nerfs on Champs are very much justified. Asura is a stupid skill to begin with. We're lucky it's only been nerfed periodically here than outright removed on other high rate servers that I've seen. 

 

2 hours ago, Schotto said:

2 gloom muliplies by 2 ur asura damage and from some information lady tanee is more important than gloom so 2 tanee 2 gloom can make ur asura deals 4 time ur normal damages do you still think that there isn't a huge difference?

A Gloom only adds an additional 40% modifier towards stated elements and maybe another 40% if they're of the same race as well. Tanee adds 50% of your base SP. 2 Glooms and Tanees add up to 80%(244)% more dmg towards specified element(and race) and 100% more base SP. However this is nowhere near 4 times your normal damage. Not at all. Also worth mentioning, your crappy HP pool if you actually go this route. 

Edit: Yes it does more to MVPs that don't really matter :v

 

2 hours ago, Schotto said:

and as i said champions need mvp cards to be competitive

No they don't. All it does is give them a better edge but they really don't. :v

Edited by SnowBunny

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Just now, SnowBunny said:

A Gloom only adds an additional 40% modifier towards stated elements and Tanee adds 50% of your base SP. 2 Glooms and Tanees add up to 80% more dmg towards specified element and 100% more base SP. However this is nowhere near 4 times your normal damage. Not at all. Also worth mentioning, your crappy HP pool if you actually go this route. 

U don't know how Gloom works

gloom gives 40% more damages on Angel Demon Shadow and Holy monsters that means that with 2 gloom u can deal 1.8 time ur normal damages

and if an mvp got 2 of these properties (like FBH/ VR/GBapho/Morroc) it will deal 1.8*1.8 =3.24 times ur normal damages add this to lady tanee i think u'll exceed the 4 time normal damages

Just now, SnowBunny said:

 your crappy HP pool if you actually go this route. 

Sorry my english is bad i don't understand this sentence is it an insult?

Just now, SnowBunny said:

No they don't. All it does is give them a better edge but they really don't. :v

Yes they do, read my comment that you quoted and said everything there.

Just now, SnowBunny said:

Hi. I test my newbie non MVP build everytime there's a nerf. Pre-nerf it did more than 40% of most major MVPs that can't be one shotted the important ones being FBH, Kiel, VR. Using Asura three times takes 2.37 seconds on 281 ping. Now that it's been nerfed another 50% it may take about double that without MVP cards so about 4 ~ 6 Asuras in roughly 5 seconds give or take. That's pretty fast isn't it? Compare this to roughly 7 ~ 12(or more) seconds taken by magic users(which are also now nerfed) give or take who has to spend at least 30b(or more as well) on gear or countless hours hunting the cards. In this retrospect, champs are pretty damn op and I think it's been said somewhere before, but unless a new MVP class suddenly manages to make it's way in with better burst damage, the nerfs on Champs are very much justified. Asura is a stupid skill to begin with. We're lucky it's only been nerfed periodically here than outright removed on other high rate servers that I've seen. 

if you understand me well i'm not againt nerfing a class i'm against making a difference between well geared and newbie guys

this will not make any difference for a well geared champ but a newbie champ will stand no chance unless he's alone with the mvp on the map

and as far as i can see everything was nerf but nothing change

why don't anomaly gives some extra weapon to champions why the policy is nerf and remove

and i prefer that they nerf it to 0% than to 50% this way not only newbie champ will be affected but the whole class

and i don't compare champion to other mage class even if those class have intermediat cards to get easily thing we can't say about champions and champions don't stand a chance against ghost mvps

 

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2 hours ago, Schotto said:

For mage there is cards that are easy to get that can help them on ACD (Durthror card) befor they get their Kiel cards and stafs are realy easy to get and to up i don't play much mage class and i already have a +9 TSoD

and as i said champions need mvp cards to be competitive

The newbie cards will get Mages almost nowhere when MvPing... The standard is 3 Kiels for a Prof and make up the difference with that final 10% ACD with a +8 or more TSoD (requires finishing ET and refining it at least up to around +8) OR use Sorc/Sprint/Expert Rings/Diablos Robe on a +10 SoP before filtering the rest of your build around MATK and Bolt modifiers.  However, your damage will be absolutely atrocious with a grand total of 19% MPen.

 

A Soul Linker needs at least 2 (potentially 3 if you're from SEA and have bad ping) Kiels, and then uses Vespers (not negotiable because a SL can't use TSoD or SoP) before optimising the rest of their build around MATK and SP consumption management.

 

Both classes also need 2 FBHs (more mid-tier MvPs!) to get by, with SL having terrible Mana issues on budget boots.  With the amount of pots/Berries you'll chug through with High Jump/Esma spam, you're better off just using Champ.

 

Doing some math here, that means a Prof would need 6 (5 if you use a Vesper and then compromise that last 15% ACD with a bunch of undesirable gear that'll tank your MATK) newbie Kiels to make up the normal 3 Kiel standard, which means no Vespers, and they're still left with 10% ACD which is actually a lot for Bolts (around 280ms left).  Soul Linker isn't much better off, having 4 slots taken by the newbie Kiel, and space for Vespers, but it's still a very clunky build to have to deal with due to their poor Mana pool.  Prepare to have to spam Blue Pots or Berries every few High Jumps, lol.

 

Again, the fact doesn't change that a Champ's budget is nowhere near this demanding, but STILL probably more rewarding, since a trip to abyss_03 and a +10 Liberation Mace will fix almost all of your requirements to hunt at least some MvPs, and 1HKO ones like Tao which is a very valuable card no matter who you are.  I'm not really sure why you even brought up having a +9 TSoD... I'm happy for you I guess?  But ET takes time and coordination to complete for newer players who probably aren't quite as excited by doing ET as you appear to be, and will require multiple runs to get a decently refined one if they don't donate for a Safe Refine Ticket.

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Just now, Hylian Spectre said:

Again, the fact doesn't change that a Champ's budget is nowhere near this demanding, but STILL probably more rewarding, since a trip to abyss_03 and a +10 Liberation Mace will fix almost all of your requirements to hunt at least some MvPs, and 1HKO ones like Tao which is a very valuable card no matter who you are.  I'm not really sure why you even brought up having a +9 TSoD... I'm happy for you I guess?  But ET takes time and coordination to complete for newer players who probably aren't quite as excited by doing ET as you appear to be, and will require multiple runs to get a decently refined one if they don't donate for a Safe Refine Ticket.

I don't disagree with you Champions build is cheaper than Prof/SL and cheaper doesnt mean cheap it only means cheaper than Prof build but its stil expensive for some people 

But some stuff for Prof/SL can be grinded easily like Mpen/ACD a lot of stuff gives those bonus yes some less than others but as champion or any class you have to start with weak stuff then get your final stuff slowly

i broght up my +9 TSoD to state that its easy to get especialy if u interested in that class i don't play prof or SL and i have one

(ET is easy to do with snip needs only some stuff)

again don't see me as a pro Champion and want Prof/SL to do nothing

it's only that i don't want newbie champion to be useless 

Prof/SL are good at a lot of things other than MVPs (BG/WOE/PVP...)

Champ have only 1 purpose 

ET need coordination? what do you meaN?

Edited by Schotto

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9 hours ago, Schotto said:

I'm not omniscient about Ro i'm aware of that but can you take time and explain to me where i'm wrong on how i see this

with my full build champion( with no mvp cards) i was only able to deal less than 50% to FBH and Kiel

when i got my 2 gloom i was barly able to OS FBH and Kiel (my asura deals 1m more than FBH hp pool)

Without a single MVP card you can deal 5.28m damage to Tao Gunka (1 hit kill), 4.75m damage to Kiel (>50%), 2.35m to Pharaoh (>50%), 4.49m to SinX (>50%), 1.3m to GTB (>50%). You guarantee yourself all of these MVPs (and more that I didn't list) with a single Asura Strike, meaning nothing has changed at all for any of these MVPs, whether you're full build or a newbie.

 

9 hours ago, Schotto said:

What do you mean by LK?

The MVP, Lord Knight Seyren. You can deal 2.1m damage with an extremely basic build, which is about 22% of its HP. It wouldn't take much to adjust the build accordingly to deal 25%, at which point you only need to hit it twice to guarantee the MVP for yourself. There's a lot of other MVPs that require only 2-3 hits to get to 50% as well. If you're the first to find an MVP, hitting it a second or third time before others show up shouldn't be a problem.

 

9 hours ago, Schotto said:

Sorry, but i disagree. Gloom have a large specter of action (Angel-Demon-Holy-Shadow)

and the majority of good mvp have one or 2 of these propreties (FBH/Kiel/Valk/Morroc/TGK/Detal/Niddhog/Vesper/...)

FBH - Guaranteed in 3 Asura Strikes without a single MVP card

Kiel - Guaranteed in 1 Asura Strike without a single MVP card

Valkyrie - Guaranteed in 3 Asura Strikes without a single MVP card

Tao Gunka - One shot kill without a single MVP card

Detale - Guaranteed in 2 Asura Strikes without a single MVP card

Nidhoggur - Instance MVP, can't be stolen

Vesper - Guaranteed in 1 Asura Strike without a single MVP card

 

For every MVP you listed other that Satan Morroc, you don't need any Glooms (or other MVP cards) to guarantee that you get them. I guess you could argue FBH and Valkyrie if you have trouble targeting them for multiple Asura Strikes, but if that's the case then someone trying to steal it from you should in theory have the same task of trying to aim correctly anyway.

 

9 hours ago, Schotto said:

2 gloom muliplies by 2 ur asura damage and from some information lady tanee is more important than gloom so 2 tanee 2 gloom can make ur asura deals 4 time ur normal damages do you still think that there isn't a huge difference?

The only purpose of a champion is to MVP he doesn't shine anywhere

Whether those cards make a difference or not isn't really important; the fact is that in the majority of cases, that difference isn't meaningful, as explained in the rest of this post. Champions still excel at MVPing, even without any MVP cards, while other classes that cost a similar amount (Sniper etc) are drastically slower at killing MVPs, and classes that can almost compete (but are still slower in most cases) are infinitely more expensive to gear up.

 

6 hours ago, Schotto said:

and cheaper doesnt mean cheap it only means cheaper than Prof build but its stil expensive for some people

No, it means cheap:

Spoiler

Headgears: Customs with Vanberk Cards

Armor: Whatever you want, could probably just use a Goibne's Armor with Dainn Cards for some HP

Weapon: +10 Mace with 4 Abysmal Knight Cards

Shield: Anything with 2 Alice Cards

Garment: Morpheus's Shawl with 2 Aliot Cards

Footgear: Glass Boots (or Vidar's Boots / Variant Shoes) with 2 Sohee Cards

Accessories: Minor Int Belts with 4 Mantis Cards

Stats: 500 Str, 126 Agi, 100 Vit, 453 Int, 100 Dex, 4 Luk

That's the random build I threw together for testing the above damage values, using only Blessing and Increase Agi for buffs. Not a single MVP needs to be killed for any of those items, unless you opt for Variant Shoes, but Glass Boots are better anyway. This build is better than cheap - it's free and, aside from the BG items (which have easy replacements), can be farmed by a player on the same day that they joined the server.

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1 hour ago, Perry the Platypus said:

Without a single MVP card you can deal 5.28m damage to Tao Gunka (1 hit kill), 4.75m damage to Kiel (>50%), 2.35m to Pharaoh (>50%), 4.49m to SinX (>50%), 1.3m to GTB (>50%). You guarantee yourself all of these MVPs (and more that I didn't list) with a single Asura Strike, meaning nothing has changed at all for any of these MVPs, whether you're full build or a newbie.

Sir i'm sorry but in every topic we discus i feel like you don't get what i say clearly,it might be me not understand you or my lack of english knowledge

i didn't test on kiel yet (and i'm sure i will not test i can't aford to test on an mvp and lose it) but when my champ had no mvp cards i was only able to deal 75% of kiel damages and less than 50% of fbh with gloom card 2*, i was able to OS them, now that you took down to 50% damage of asura how will people with no mvp cards be competitve 

the thing that you don't read i'n my comment i guess is i'm not against nerfing a class

if a char deal 200% to something he will OS it if you reduce it by half he'll still be able to OS it

But people who 'arnt stuffed as the veteran of anomalyro will return to the start point where they will have no chance to be MVP

yes a lot of MVP can be OS with a normal stuff but the most important arn't that easy and if you don't deal more than 50% damage you are doomed

1 hour ago, Perry the Platypus said:

FBH - Guaranteed in 3 Asura Strikes without a single MVP card

Kiel - Guaranteed in 1 Asura Strike without a single MVP card

Valkyrie - Guaranteed in 3 Asura Strikes without a single MVP card

Do you have time to land 3 asura before a well geared champ comes for the MVP

i'm sorry but even with ur build you can't OS Kiel with no MVP card 2HKO maybe if you got a realy good stuff

1 hour ago, Perry the Platypus said:

No, it means cheap:

Sorry but 2 Gloom and 2 tanee arn't that cheap and they are necessary especialy with that nerf to be competitif

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14 minutes ago, Schotto said:

if a char deal 200% to something he will OS it if you reduce it by half he'll still be able to OS it

But people who 'arnt stuffed as the veteran of anomalyro will return to the start point where they will have no chance to be MVP

yes a lot of MVP can be OS with a normal stuff but the most important arn't that easy and if you don't deal more than 50% damage you are doomed

I just listed a large number of the most important MVPs, including both Kiel and Tao, which require zero MVP cards to deal more than 50% damage in a single hit using the build that I posted. I also listed a number of other MVPs that require only two hits to do this, and explained that if you're the first to find an MVP, landing a second hit shouldn't take longer than it takes for someone else to find it.

 

You need to re-read my post, specifically the lists of MVPs and the damage that can be dealt to them with newbie the build that I posted. The point you're trying to make simply doesn't apply to the vast majority of MVPs, and that includes the important MVPs.

 

5 minutes ago, Schotto said:

Do you have time to land 3 asura before a well geared champ comes for the MVP

i'm sorry but even with ur build you can't OS Kiel with no MVP card 2HKO maybe if you got a realy good stuff

You either didn't read my last reply, or you skipped about 90% of it since this is exactly what the majority of my reply was about.

I posted a build that doesn't have "really good stuff," it uses exactly zero MVP drops. It deals 4.75m damage to Kiel which is over 50% of its health.

I also listed a lot of other MVPs that only require one hit to deal 50% damage.

And, also in my reply, I listed a number of MVPs that need 2-3, hits to deal 50% damage, and mentioned that it's fairly easy to do.

 

If you take too long to use Asura Strike just twice (or even 3 times), and that gives someone else enough time to find the MVP, walk up to it, and cast a stronger Asura Strike on it themselves, then you may need to practice casting it faster, because it should only take a few seconds per cast. Either that or you now know how every other class feels in an MVP invasion, and why we wanted to slow down Champions' ability to jump around the map one shotting MVPs.

 

12 minutes ago, Schotto said:

Sorry but 2 Gloom and 2 tanee arn't that cheap and they are necessary especialy with that nerf to be competitif

Again, you didn't read my post. Open the spoiler and look at the build I posted. It doesn't have a Gloom, it doesn't have a Tanee. It deals the damage that I posted to every MVP mentioned in my reply. They aren't necessary to be competitive.

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